Jimny > Renegade

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 01/06/2019 at 16:16 • Filed to: Jimny

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The renegade trailhawk has more ground clearance than the Jimny (8.7 vs 8.2)

It has better power to weight (19.8 vs 25) lbs/hp

Better torque to weight too (20 vs 26.7) Lbs/ ft-lb

And even though the renegade has a 20:1 crawl ratio, there is no way its doing this.

Low range - It matters.

The crawl ratio on the Jimny is 50:1 for the manual and 32:1 on the auto.

If you want an off-roader, it NEEDS low range (or a helluva lot more power down low than the Tigershark 2.4)

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2019 at 16:32

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No low range can always be overcome by more throttle!

way2blu does a rev update > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2019 at 16:34

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What about the 1.4 turbo on the base Renegade? Sure, it’s got lag and it’s not available on the Trailhawk models, but it makes torque a lot earlier than the 2.4L. If you’re building an off-road Renegade anyway, might as well start with the smaller turbo?

HammerheadFistpunch > way2blu does a rev update 01/06/2019 at 16:52

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it would make a lot more sense in my opinion. but what do i know

HammerheadFistpunch > DipodomysDeserti 01/06/2019 at 16:52

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not in the renegade it can't. 

Just Jeepin' > way2blu does a rev update 01/06/2019 at 16:58

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The manual isn’t available with the Trailhawk, so that’d be my preference.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2019 at 20:00

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Can confirm. (It can’t, that is.)

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2019 at 20:02

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I enjoy watching the Renegade get into absurd situations that most people it think it couldn’t get into, let alone out of, but it really, really needs low range.  Best we can tell it was either a space issue, or that Jeep didn’t want the Renegade cutting into Wrangler sales.  Probably both.

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2019 at 21:12

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20:1 for the Renegade? Really? My Saab has 18:1 in 1st (which is apparently the same as a contemporary Land Rover Series II 1st gear, without low range engaged).

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 01/07/2019 at 02:14

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I don’t know how easy it is to integrate a transfer case into a FWD transaxle. It’s one thing to run a shaft back from the differential portion to drive the rear axle, but another altogether to incorporate a secondary transmission into the transaxle between the engine and diff. I’m 99% confident no one has ever done a dual range transaxle — a t least I’ve never come across it, that is. M ost of the more offroady of the fw d-based 4wd cars just incorporate an extra low first gear that you just wouldn’t use in normal driving scenarios. There are limitations to how low that gear can be, though, given there’s only so much space inside the case for bigger gears, but there are also limitations to the usefulness of the lowest transmission gears with a transfer case in low-range as well, so for someone buying a 4wd car and not a truck, it meets almost all the needs. And usually the higher transmission gears in low range overlap the final ratios of lower transmission gears in high-range anyhow. I t really wouldn’t have been an issue until the proliferation of the fwd-chassis crossover started blurring the lines between cars and trucks, so now more people are doing serious off-roading with chassis that have been adapted for it, but were  never really intended to handle   more than snowy or muddy roads.

i86hotdogs > way2blu does a rev update 01/07/2019 at 08:00

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I wrote a detailed review of my 1.4 Renny I owned for a moment. If I had the cash, I would have built the base Renegade with the manual into a better TH. The 1.4 engine has more ways to add power than the 2.4 Tigershark. This is because that engine is also in a lot fo euro-spec fiats, and all abarth models. The base engine gives you good initial torque, but just doesn’t have enough overall power. There is enough aftermarket support .   I’ ve seen lifts, suspension upgrades, bumpers, and other things to get it beyond TH’s capability. The biggest difference between the Jimney and the Renny are true locking diffs. Renegades is an electronic one that can’t keep up with a true locking diff. Also, the 2019 MY dropped the manual option, so RIP in p eace to that. Used manual Renny’s go for $ 10-15k.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/07/2019 at 10:38

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That is a really good point! I guess yeah, if you wanted proper low range in a transaxle vehicle all the gearing would need to be integrated into the transmission... which at that point it would be the same as having extra transmission gearing and... yeah. Here we are haha.

I guess as an alternative they could have installed better gearing in the 9-speed. 1st gear gives you a decently low g ear, but the Renegade has four overdrive gears, which is... too many. Apparently the transmission almost never goes into 9th, reserving it for going downhill at speeds above 70 or 80. I wonder if there were a way to sacrifice one or two of those OD gears to include a lower low.  (T hankfully for all of us, I am not a transmission designer and we’re starting to get deep in the weeds on that and fuel economy requirements...)

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > DipodomysDeserti 01/07/2019 at 11:13

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My buddy in his RRC with a busted T-Case proved that.

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 01/07/2019 at 11:15

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If in doubt, grab a shovel.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 01/07/2019 at 14:17

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It may or may not be possible within the physical constraints of the transmission. The further away from 1:1 you get, the more difference you need in the size of the gears. To go 2:1 (or 1:2) you don’t need to have one gear twice the diameter of the other, because the circumference is the relevant dimension, I think it’s about 6:1 where the size of the larger gear is twice the diameter of the smaller gear but I haven’t done the math on that so don’t quote me on those figures. But at any rate eventually you either can’t fit the larger gear into the case of the transmission, or between the two shafts, etc , or else the smaller gear won’t have enough meat left on it to fit over its shaft and still transmit torque. And it wouldn’t be just the low gears that you would have to make big, all the gears in the transmission would have to be bigger to take up the distance between shafts, or else you’d need to somehow incorporate idler gears, increasing the complexity of the gearbox.

The beauty of a two-speed transfer case is that it’s essentially a second transmission that allows for lower gears by having two reductions instead of one, which is a more practical solution than having massive gears inside the transmission. Hypothetically a second reduction set could be incorporated into the transaxle, but doing it without changing the relative locations of the engine and cv shafts would probably be impossible, and it’s a ton of work, cost, and complexity to add to a transmission just to appease the tiny percentage of people who would ever use the feature set.

That’s interesting about barely used gears. It almost makes me wonder if some of the trans problems FCA has experienced is simply because of things that never get used gumming up and causing problems  on the rare occasion they do get used. I imagine incorporating super-low gears might cause similar issues if they only get used twice in five years. 

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/07/2019 at 14:28

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That’s interesting about barely used gears. It almost makes me wonder if some of the trans problems FCA has experienced is simply because of things that never get used gumming up and causing problems on the rare occasion they do get used.

This is a good question too. The Renegade starts from 2nd unless you’re in one of the offroad modes or manually shift it and doesn’t like to go into 9th. IIRC my Renegade friend got a software upgrade that allegedly helped, but is far from perfect.

It is a cool little car, but we’re often left thinking with a few (maybe not very) simple tweaks it could be even better.

Also this: